Автор Тема: Коронавіруси, грип
 

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39690 : Січень 20, 2022, 19:13:19 »
Антиген, сама делаю.
Ага. То есть коридор времени не обязательно пугающе узок.
Это о чем?
Очень полезный пост американской эпидемиолога, особенно по поводу быстрых антиген-тестов, вкартце - такие тесты лучше использовать через 48 часов от начала симптомов или через 5 дней после контакта, и если получили отрицательный результат, то повторить еще через 24 часа.
Cпойлер
Your Local Epidemiologist
5 год  ·
Antigen Tests: Real world data
Today, after 2 long years, antigen tests are finally available to Americans free of charge. (Actually, yesterday the system secretly went live. More than 900,000 got word and flooded the site in a few hours). Each household can order up to 4 tests on covidtests.gov. Or you can go on the USPS website and fill out a surprisingly easy government form (oxymoron, I know). You will not be charged for shipping, and they don’t even ask for a credit card number. The tests should show up in your mailbox 7-12 days later. (There are a number of health equity issues with all of this, but that’s for another post).
And we really need to better leverage antigen tests in our pandemic toolkit. They are one of the most underutilized tools and can help us “learn to live” with SARS-CoV-2 by breaking transmission chains across the nation.
In my last antigen test post, I presented evidence that antigen tests could physically detect Omicron (thanks to the N-protein), and lab studies could detect Omicron at the same viral levels as Delta. But lab studies are highly controlled environments and certainly not reflective of the “real world.” We desperately needed evidence in the community. Now we have five studies and each has a unique contribution to the puzzle we’re trying to put together: How well do antigen tests work?
Here is what they say.
***Be careful with negatives in the beginning of infection***
The first study followed 30 people in high-risk jobs from December 1 to December 31, 2021, during Omicron outbreaks at five workplaces in New York, NY, Los Angeles, CA, and San Francisco, CA. Everyone was fully vaccinated (boosted by choice) and was being tested daily. The scientists compared how well nasal antigen tests worked against saliva PCR tests. They found a few interesting patterns:
-The average time from first positive PCR to first antigen positive was 3 days
-Peak viral load was 1-2 days earlier in saliva than the nose
-All individuals developed symptoms within two days of the first positive saliva PCR test
-It’s possible to be contagious yet have a negative rapid test. Four of the 30 people in this study spread COVID19 between negative rapid tests.
It’s important to note that this study primarily compared nasal antigen tests to saliva PCR tests. So, are these findings because antigen tests aren’t as great in the beginning of infection OR because of the location which was swabbed? It seems like the location of the swab is a big part of the answer. Five people in this study also had a nasal PCR. The saliva PCRs consistently had stronger signals (lower Ct values) than the nasal PCRs in the first few days of infection.
This study tells us that we need to be super careful when using rapid tests in the first few days of exposure or infection. To get the most from your rapid test, wait at least 48 hours after symptoms and 5 days after exposure before taking an antigen test. If you’re negative, test again 24 hours thereafter. You can certainly test sooner, but any negative results will be unreliable. A positive antigen test result, on the other hand, is very reliable right now, especially after exposure or with symptoms.
(For the record, the CDC rapid testing website FAQ section advises testing 5 days after close contact or as soon as you begin feeling symptoms. We think it’s better to wait a bit longer after symptoms.)
***Antigen tests work really well thereafter***
The second “real world” study compared nasal antigen tests with nasal PCR tests among 731 people in San Francisco from January 3-4, 2022. The scientists evaluated how well the BinaxNOW rapid antigen tests performed compared to PCR at a community-based testing site. What did they find?
-Overall, 296 of 731 (40.5%) tested positive on the PCR.
—-Among people with a positive PCR with no symptoms (59 people), antigen tests detected 43 positive. This equated to a sensitivity of 89.8% .
—-Among people with a positive PCR who were symptomatic, the sensitivity of antigen tests was 97.6%.
-As expected, the higher the viral load, the more accurate the antigen test.
-The tests were just as accurate among those under 13 years of age compared to those older than 13.
-The tests performed similarly regardless of vaccination status.
-The likelihood of a false positive was very small (432 of 435 PCR negatives were correctly identified as negative by rapid tests).
This preprint study was updated a few days ago. They added data from a pilot study of cheek swabs among 75 people, both by PCR and by rapid antigen test. This is what they found:
-Cheek swabs performed far worse than nasal swabs.
-Among 46 PCR positives, 22 were positive by antigen in the nose and only 2 were positive from the cheek. These results are disappointing, yet important to know.
In all, this study reinforces the notion that rapid tests are failing in the first few days not because of technical issues, but because Omicron is changing disease biology. It seems there is now a lag between symptoms, contagiousness and viral explosion in the nose. When the virus does take hold in the nose, rapid tests can usually find it, even without symptoms.
***You’re infectious for longer than 5 days***
The third study evaluated how Omicron infection was (or was not) different from Delta infection among National Basketball Association players—a highly vaccinated population that is tested daily. Specifically, scientists evaluated 97 tests confirmed from the Omicron variant and 107 from the Delta variant and compared how the tests varied on a myriad of factors (viral load, length of infection, etc.). Samples were all collected using dual swabs (nose and throat) and evaluated with PCR. What did they find?
-Omicron infection lasted, on average, 10 days. This is comparable to Delta infections which lasted, on average, 11 days.
-Many people cleared the virus faster and others clear the virus much slower.
-Roughly 50% of people still had a high viral levels at Day 5 (meaning they were likely infectious).
Together the results suggest a broad range of an infectious period, which is all the more reason to use a rapid antigen test-to-exit strategy in the United States.
***The U.K. agrees***
A separate modeling study in the U.K. estimated the impact of leveraging antigen tests to end isolation (something the CDC is not recommending). Specifically, the scientists were interested in how many people would be infectious given different policy recommendations. What did they find?
-During a 5-day isolation period (and not using an antigen test), there is a 1 in 3 (31%) chance you’re still infectious.
-During a 7-day isolation period (and not using an antigen test), there is a 1 in 6 chance you’re still infectious.
-If you use an antigen test on Day 7 of isolation and it’s negative, there is less than a 1 in 10 chance you’re still infectious. This is the same odds as if you isolated for 10 days without testing.
In England, the isolation policy was updated again this week: “It is now possible to end self-isolation after 5 full days if you have 2 negative LFD tests taken on consecutive days. The first LFD test should not be taken before the fifth day after your symptoms started (or the day your test was taken if you did not have symptoms).”
***Viral load isn’t the same thing as infectious load, though***
All the previous studies (except the U.K. report) analyzed “viral load” or the number of virus particles because it’s the easiest to measure for a quick turnaround study. However, and importantly, the number of viral particles does not equal the number of infectious particles. And the latter is what we are truly interested to answer: Are we infectious?
The final “real world” study was conducted in Switzerland among 384 symptomatic individuals at a community testing center, who were tested during the first five days of symptoms. The goal was to examine the relationship between viral load (measured by PCR) and contagiousness (measured by lab experiments). What did they find?
-The precise viral level by PCR was not a great predictor of infectiousness—it was a modest 31% correlation. This is okay, but certainly not fantastic.
-The number of infectious particles was lower among vaccinated compared to unvaccinated people.
-Omicron was not substantially different from Delta, either in terms of viral load or contagiousness. In other words, we need to look elsewhere to understand Omicron’s mysteriously high contagiousness.
This study did not include rapid antigen tests, but given that we are seeing considerable infectiousness at viral levels lower than what rapid tests pick up, it’s best to assume that a positive rapid test means you are contagious, no matter what testing day you’re on.
***Bottom line:***
Use antigen tests. Use antigen tests. Use antigen tests. Do so wisely.
-Be aware of false negatives in the early stages of infection, and know that it can take several days after symptoms for the virus to take hold in your nose. Once you reach the tipping point, rapid tests are a reliable way to detect and monitor your infection.
-Trust your positive test during the Omicron wave.
-If at all possible, do not leave isolation without testing (I don’t care what the CDC says). If you can’t access tests, assume you are contagious for 10 days, and act accordingly.
Love, YLE and Dr. Chana Davis

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39691 : Січень 20, 2022, 20:07:09 »
Антиген, сама делаю.
Ага. То есть коридор времени не обязательно пугающе узок.
Это о чем?
Очень полезный пост американской эпидемиолога, особенно по поводу быстрых антиген-тестов, вкартце - такие тесты лучше использовать через 48 часов от начала симптомов или через 5 дней после контакта, и если получили отрицательный результат, то повторить еще через 24 часа.
Cпойлер
Your Local Epidemiologist
5 год  ·
Antigen Tests: Real world data
Today, after 2 long years, antigen tests are finally available to Americans free of charge. (Actually, yesterday the system secretly went live. More than 900,000 got word and flooded the site in a few hours). Each household can order up to 4 tests on covidtests.gov. Or you can go on the USPS website and fill out a surprisingly easy government form (oxymoron, I know). You will not be charged for shipping, and they don’t even ask for a credit card number. The tests should show up in your mailbox 7-12 days later. (There are a number of health equity issues with all of this, but that’s for another post).
And we really need to better leverage antigen tests in our pandemic toolkit. They are one of the most underutilized tools and can help us “learn to live” with SARS-CoV-2 by breaking transmission chains across the nation.
In my last antigen test post, I presented evidence that antigen tests could physically detect Omicron (thanks to the N-protein), and lab studies could detect Omicron at the same viral levels as Delta. But lab studies are highly controlled environments and certainly not reflective of the “real world.” We desperately needed evidence in the community. Now we have five studies and each has a unique contribution to the puzzle we’re trying to put together: How well do antigen tests work?
Here is what they say.
***Be careful with negatives in the beginning of infection***
The first study followed 30 people in high-risk jobs from December 1 to December 31, 2021, during Omicron outbreaks at five workplaces in New York, NY, Los Angeles, CA, and San Francisco, CA. Everyone was fully vaccinated (boosted by choice) and was being tested daily. The scientists compared how well nasal antigen tests worked against saliva PCR tests. They found a few interesting patterns:
-The average time from first positive PCR to first antigen positive was 3 days
-Peak viral load was 1-2 days earlier in saliva than the nose
-All individuals developed symptoms within two days of the first positive saliva PCR test
-It’s possible to be contagious yet have a negative rapid test. Four of the 30 people in this study spread COVID19 between negative rapid tests.
It’s important to note that this study primarily compared nasal antigen tests to saliva PCR tests. So, are these findings because antigen tests aren’t as great in the beginning of infection OR because of the location which was swabbed? It seems like the location of the swab is a big part of the answer. Five people in this study also had a nasal PCR. The saliva PCRs consistently had stronger signals (lower Ct values) than the nasal PCRs in the first few days of infection.
This study tells us that we need to be super careful when using rapid tests in the first few days of exposure or infection. To get the most from your rapid test, wait at least 48 hours after symptoms and 5 days after exposure before taking an antigen test. If you’re negative, test again 24 hours thereafter. You can certainly test sooner, but any negative results will be unreliable. A positive antigen test result, on the other hand, is very reliable right now, especially after exposure or with symptoms.
(For the record, the CDC rapid testing website FAQ section advises testing 5 days after close contact or as soon as you begin feeling symptoms. We think it’s better to wait a bit longer after symptoms.)
***Antigen tests work really well thereafter***
The second “real world” study compared nasal antigen tests with nasal PCR tests among 731 people in San Francisco from January 3-4, 2022. The scientists evaluated how well the BinaxNOW rapid antigen tests performed compared to PCR at a community-based testing site. What did they find?
-Overall, 296 of 731 (40.5%) tested positive on the PCR.
—-Among people with a positive PCR with no symptoms (59 people), antigen tests detected 43 positive. This equated to a sensitivity of 89.8% .
—-Among people with a positive PCR who were symptomatic, the sensitivity of antigen tests was 97.6%.
-As expected, the higher the viral load, the more accurate the antigen test.
-The tests were just as accurate among those under 13 years of age compared to those older than 13.
-The tests performed similarly regardless of vaccination status.
-The likelihood of a false positive was very small (432 of 435 PCR negatives were correctly identified as negative by rapid tests).
This preprint study was updated a few days ago. They added data from a pilot study of cheek swabs among 75 people, both by PCR and by rapid antigen test. This is what they found:
-Cheek swabs performed far worse than nasal swabs.
-Among 46 PCR positives, 22 were positive by antigen in the nose and only 2 were positive from the cheek. These results are disappointing, yet important to know.
In all, this study reinforces the notion that rapid tests are failing in the first few days not because of technical issues, but because Omicron is changing disease biology. It seems there is now a lag between symptoms, contagiousness and viral explosion in the nose. When the virus does take hold in the nose, rapid tests can usually find it, even without symptoms.
***You’re infectious for longer than 5 days***
The third study evaluated how Omicron infection was (or was not) different from Delta infection among National Basketball Association players—a highly vaccinated population that is tested daily. Specifically, scientists evaluated 97 tests confirmed from the Omicron variant and 107 from the Delta variant and compared how the tests varied on a myriad of factors (viral load, length of infection, etc.). Samples were all collected using dual swabs (nose and throat) and evaluated with PCR. What did they find?
-Omicron infection lasted, on average, 10 days. This is comparable to Delta infections which lasted, on average, 11 days.
-Many people cleared the virus faster and others clear the virus much slower.
-Roughly 50% of people still had a high viral levels at Day 5 (meaning they were likely infectious).
Together the results suggest a broad range of an infectious period, which is all the more reason to use a rapid antigen test-to-exit strategy in the United States.
***The U.K. agrees***
A separate modeling study in the U.K. estimated the impact of leveraging antigen tests to end isolation (something the CDC is not recommending). Specifically, the scientists were interested in how many people would be infectious given different policy recommendations. What did they find?
-During a 5-day isolation period (and not using an antigen test), there is a 1 in 3 (31%) chance you’re still infectious.
-During a 7-day isolation period (and not using an antigen test), there is a 1 in 6 chance you’re still infectious.
-If you use an antigen test on Day 7 of isolation and it’s negative, there is less than a 1 in 10 chance you’re still infectious. This is the same odds as if you isolated for 10 days without testing.
In England, the isolation policy was updated again this week: “It is now possible to end self-isolation after 5 full days if you have 2 negative LFD tests taken on consecutive days. The first LFD test should not be taken before the fifth day after your symptoms started (or the day your test was taken if you did not have symptoms).”
***Viral load isn’t the same thing as infectious load, though***
All the previous studies (except the U.K. report) analyzed “viral load” or the number of virus particles because it’s the easiest to measure for a quick turnaround study. However, and importantly, the number of viral particles does not equal the number of infectious particles. And the latter is what we are truly interested to answer: Are we infectious?
The final “real world” study was conducted in Switzerland among 384 symptomatic individuals at a community testing center, who were tested during the first five days of symptoms. The goal was to examine the relationship between viral load (measured by PCR) and contagiousness (measured by lab experiments). What did they find?
-The precise viral level by PCR was not a great predictor of infectiousness—it was a modest 31% correlation. This is okay, but certainly not fantastic.
-The number of infectious particles was lower among vaccinated compared to unvaccinated people.
-Omicron was not substantially different from Delta, either in terms of viral load or contagiousness. In other words, we need to look elsewhere to understand Omicron’s mysteriously high contagiousness.
This study did not include rapid antigen tests, but given that we are seeing considerable infectiousness at viral levels lower than what rapid tests pick up, it’s best to assume that a positive rapid test means you are contagious, no matter what testing day you’re on.
***Bottom line:***
Use antigen tests. Use antigen tests. Use antigen tests. Do so wisely.
-Be aware of false negatives in the early stages of infection, and know that it can take several days after symptoms for the virus to take hold in your nose. Once you reach the tipping point, rapid tests are a reliable way to detect and monitor your infection.
-Trust your positive test during the Omicron wave.
-If at all possible, do not leave isolation without testing (I don’t care what the CDC says). If you can’t access tests, assume you are contagious for 10 days, and act accordingly.
Love, YLE and Dr. Chana Davis

Хм, у меня не такой вывод из статьи. Ну бог с ней. Работает норм.

Offline ~Багира~

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39692 : Січень 20, 2022, 20:16:41 »
Антиген, сама делаю.
Ага. То есть коридор времени не обязательно пугающе узок.
Это о чем?
Очень полезный пост американской эпидемиолога, особенно по поводу быстрых антиген-тестов, вкартце - такие тесты лучше использовать через 48 часов от начала симптомов или через 5 дней после контакта, и если получили отрицательный результат, то повторить еще через 24 часа.
Cпойлер
Your Local Epidemiologist
5 год  ·
Antigen Tests: Real world data
Today, after 2 long years, antigen tests are finally available to Americans free of charge. (Actually, yesterday the system secretly went live. More than 900,000 got word and flooded the site in a few hours). Each household can order up to 4 tests on covidtests.gov. Or you can go on the USPS website and fill out a surprisingly easy government form (oxymoron, I know). You will not be charged for shipping, and they don’t even ask for a credit card number. The tests should show up in your mailbox 7-12 days later. (There are a number of health equity issues with all of this, but that’s for another post).
And we really need to better leverage antigen tests in our pandemic toolkit. They are one of the most underutilized tools and can help us “learn to live” with SARS-CoV-2 by breaking transmission chains across the nation.
In my last antigen test post, I presented evidence that antigen tests could physically detect Omicron (thanks to the N-protein), and lab studies could detect Omicron at the same viral levels as Delta. But lab studies are highly controlled environments and certainly not reflective of the “real world.” We desperately needed evidence in the community. Now we have five studies and each has a unique contribution to the puzzle we’re trying to put together: How well do antigen tests work?
Here is what they say.
***Be careful with negatives in the beginning of infection***
The first study followed 30 people in high-risk jobs from December 1 to December 31, 2021, during Omicron outbreaks at five workplaces in New York, NY, Los Angeles, CA, and San Francisco, CA. Everyone was fully vaccinated (boosted by choice) and was being tested daily. The scientists compared how well nasal antigen tests worked against saliva PCR tests. They found a few interesting patterns:
-The average time from first positive PCR to first antigen positive was 3 days
-Peak viral load was 1-2 days earlier in saliva than the nose
-All individuals developed symptoms within two days of the first positive saliva PCR test
-It’s possible to be contagious yet have a negative rapid test. Four of the 30 people in this study spread COVID19 between negative rapid tests.
It’s important to note that this study primarily compared nasal antigen tests to saliva PCR tests. So, are these findings because antigen tests aren’t as great in the beginning of infection OR because of the location which was swabbed? It seems like the location of the swab is a big part of the answer. Five people in this study also had a nasal PCR. The saliva PCRs consistently had stronger signals (lower Ct values) than the nasal PCRs in the first few days of infection.
This study tells us that we need to be super careful when using rapid tests in the first few days of exposure or infection. To get the most from your rapid test, wait at least 48 hours after symptoms and 5 days after exposure before taking an antigen test. If you’re negative, test again 24 hours thereafter. You can certainly test sooner, but any negative results will be unreliable. A positive antigen test result, on the other hand, is very reliable right now, especially after exposure or with symptoms.
(For the record, the CDC rapid testing website FAQ section advises testing 5 days after close contact or as soon as you begin feeling symptoms. We think it’s better to wait a bit longer after symptoms.)
***Antigen tests work really well thereafter***
The second “real world” study compared nasal antigen tests with nasal PCR tests among 731 people in San Francisco from January 3-4, 2022. The scientists evaluated how well the BinaxNOW rapid antigen tests performed compared to PCR at a community-based testing site. What did they find?
-Overall, 296 of 731 (40.5%) tested positive on the PCR.
—-Among people with a positive PCR with no symptoms (59 people), antigen tests detected 43 positive. This equated to a sensitivity of 89.8% .
—-Among people with a positive PCR who were symptomatic, the sensitivity of antigen tests was 97.6%.
-As expected, the higher the viral load, the more accurate the antigen test.
-The tests were just as accurate among those under 13 years of age compared to those older than 13.
-The tests performed similarly regardless of vaccination status.
-The likelihood of a false positive was very small (432 of 435 PCR negatives were correctly identified as negative by rapid tests).
This preprint study was updated a few days ago. They added data from a pilot study of cheek swabs among 75 people, both by PCR and by rapid antigen test. This is what they found:
-Cheek swabs performed far worse than nasal swabs.
-Among 46 PCR positives, 22 were positive by antigen in the nose and only 2 were positive from the cheek. These results are disappointing, yet important to know.
In all, this study reinforces the notion that rapid tests are failing in the first few days not because of technical issues, but because Omicron is changing disease biology. It seems there is now a lag between symptoms, contagiousness and viral explosion in the nose. When the virus does take hold in the nose, rapid tests can usually find it, even without symptoms.
***You’re infectious for longer than 5 days***
The third study evaluated how Omicron infection was (or was not) different from Delta infection among National Basketball Association players—a highly vaccinated population that is tested daily. Specifically, scientists evaluated 97 tests confirmed from the Omicron variant and 107 from the Delta variant and compared how the tests varied on a myriad of factors (viral load, length of infection, etc.). Samples were all collected using dual swabs (nose and throat) and evaluated with PCR. What did they find?
-Omicron infection lasted, on average, 10 days. This is comparable to Delta infections which lasted, on average, 11 days.
-Many people cleared the virus faster and others clear the virus much slower.
-Roughly 50% of people still had a high viral levels at Day 5 (meaning they were likely infectious).
Together the results suggest a broad range of an infectious period, which is all the more reason to use a rapid antigen test-to-exit strategy in the United States.
***The U.K. agrees***
A separate modeling study in the U.K. estimated the impact of leveraging antigen tests to end isolation (something the CDC is not recommending). Specifically, the scientists were interested in how many people would be infectious given different policy recommendations. What did they find?
-During a 5-day isolation period (and not using an antigen test), there is a 1 in 3 (31%) chance you’re still infectious.
-During a 7-day isolation period (and not using an antigen test), there is a 1 in 6 chance you’re still infectious.
-If you use an antigen test on Day 7 of isolation and it’s negative, there is less than a 1 in 10 chance you’re still infectious. This is the same odds as if you isolated for 10 days without testing.
In England, the isolation policy was updated again this week: “It is now possible to end self-isolation after 5 full days if you have 2 negative LFD tests taken on consecutive days. The first LFD test should not be taken before the fifth day after your symptoms started (or the day your test was taken if you did not have symptoms).”
***Viral load isn’t the same thing as infectious load, though***
All the previous studies (except the U.K. report) analyzed “viral load” or the number of virus particles because it’s the easiest to measure for a quick turnaround study. However, and importantly, the number of viral particles does not equal the number of infectious particles. And the latter is what we are truly interested to answer: Are we infectious?
The final “real world” study was conducted in Switzerland among 384 symptomatic individuals at a community testing center, who were tested during the first five days of symptoms. The goal was to examine the relationship between viral load (measured by PCR) and contagiousness (measured by lab experiments). What did they find?
-The precise viral level by PCR was not a great predictor of infectiousness—it was a modest 31% correlation. This is okay, but certainly not fantastic.
-The number of infectious particles was lower among vaccinated compared to unvaccinated people.
-Omicron was not substantially different from Delta, either in terms of viral load or contagiousness. In other words, we need to look elsewhere to understand Omicron’s mysteriously high contagiousness.
This study did not include rapid antigen tests, but given that we are seeing considerable infectiousness at viral levels lower than what rapid tests pick up, it’s best to assume that a positive rapid test means you are contagious, no matter what testing day you’re on.
***Bottom line:***
Use antigen tests. Use antigen tests. Use antigen tests. Do so wisely.
-Be aware of false negatives in the early stages of infection, and know that it can take several days after symptoms for the virus to take hold in your nose. Once you reach the tipping point, rapid tests are a reliable way to detect and monitor your infection.
-Trust your positive test during the Omicron wave.
-If at all possible, do not leave isolation without testing (I don’t care what the CDC says). If you can’t access tests, assume you are contagious for 10 days, and act accordingly.
Love, YLE and Dr. Chana Davis

Хм, у меня не такой вывод из статьи. Ну бог с ней. Работает норм.
А какой?

Offline Eney

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39693 : Січень 20, 2022, 21:25:56 »
Цитувати (виділене)
Артур Амінєв
10 год  ·
Вибачте, випав на кілька тижнів. КОВІД вдарив значно сильніше, ніж я міг розраховувати.
Були плани. Тепер з них можна посміятись.
Не вірте байкам про те, що у вакцинованих все проходить за три дні. Може пройти, а може ні.
Все індивідуально.
Я вакцинований двічі. Не проскочив. За один вечір температура хитнулась від 35.2 до 39 градусів. А потім 5 днів війни між 38.4 та 38.6. Через 5 днів, програючи війну з температурою та сатурацією, ми здались, і підняли на вуха всіх.
Наступні 10 днів все моє життя було розписано десятком препаратів у графіку на холодильнику.
Скажу крамолу, але фільтруйте розповіді медиків. Система збудована так, що ефективніше Вас буде лікувати той, хто за Вас не відповідає. Тому знайдіть лікаря стаціонару, якому зможете довіряти. Лікарі поліклінік, за всієї поваги до них, будуть пробувати позбутись відповідальності.
Так, вони пахарі первинної ланки
Але така система.
Я пройшов від "я вам цього не прописувала!" і "ну ми ж в стаціонар не будемо лягати?" до спроби запхати до лікарні через швидку.
Маєте страхівку - працюйте з страховою. Не бійтесь сварки. Завдання страхової економія грошей, тому там багато бюрократії. Нам вдалось відбити малу кількість коштів, але й за це велике дякую.
І дякую моєму головному медику Елена Аминева!!!
Бережіть себе.

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39694 : Січень 20, 2022, 21:37:30 »
Антиген, сама делаю.
Ага. То есть коридор времени не обязательно пугающе узок.
Это о чем?
Очень полезный пост американской эпидемиолога, особенно по поводу быстрых антиген-тестов, вкартце - такие тесты лучше использовать через 48 часов от начала симптомов или через 5 дней после контакта, и если получили отрицательный результат, то повторить еще через 24 часа.
Cпойлер
Your Local Epidemiologist
5 год  ·
Antigen Tests: Real world data
Today, after 2 long years, antigen tests are finally available to Americans free of charge. (Actually, yesterday the system secretly went live. More than 900,000 got word and flooded the site in a few hours). Each household can order up to 4 tests on covidtests.gov. Or you can go on the USPS website and fill out a surprisingly easy government form (oxymoron, I know). You will not be charged for shipping, and they don’t even ask for a credit card number. The tests should show up in your mailbox 7-12 days later. (There are a number of health equity issues with all of this, but that’s for another post).
And we really need to better leverage antigen tests in our pandemic toolkit. They are one of the most underutilized tools and can help us “learn to live” with SARS-CoV-2 by breaking transmission chains across the nation.
In my last antigen test post, I presented evidence that antigen tests could physically detect Omicron (thanks to the N-protein), and lab studies could detect Omicron at the same viral levels as Delta. But lab studies are highly controlled environments and certainly not reflective of the “real world.” We desperately needed evidence in the community. Now we have five studies and each has a unique contribution to the puzzle we’re trying to put together: How well do antigen tests work?
Here is what they say.
***Be careful with negatives in the beginning of infection***
The first study followed 30 people in high-risk jobs from December 1 to December 31, 2021, during Omicron outbreaks at five workplaces in New York, NY, Los Angeles, CA, and San Francisco, CA. Everyone was fully vaccinated (boosted by choice) and was being tested daily. The scientists compared how well nasal antigen tests worked against saliva PCR tests. They found a few interesting patterns:
-The average time from first positive PCR to first antigen positive was 3 days
-Peak viral load was 1-2 days earlier in saliva than the nose
-All individuals developed symptoms within two days of the first positive saliva PCR test
-It’s possible to be contagious yet have a negative rapid test. Four of the 30 people in this study spread COVID19 between negative rapid tests.
It’s important to note that this study primarily compared nasal antigen tests to saliva PCR tests. So, are these findings because antigen tests aren’t as great in the beginning of infection OR because of the location which was swabbed? It seems like the location of the swab is a big part of the answer. Five people in this study also had a nasal PCR. The saliva PCRs consistently had stronger signals (lower Ct values) than the nasal PCRs in the first few days of infection.
This study tells us that we need to be super careful when using rapid tests in the first few days of exposure or infection. To get the most from your rapid test, wait at least 48 hours after symptoms and 5 days after exposure before taking an antigen test. If you’re negative, test again 24 hours thereafter. You can certainly test sooner, but any negative results will be unreliable. A positive antigen test result, on the other hand, is very reliable right now, especially after exposure or with symptoms.
(For the record, the CDC rapid testing website FAQ section advises testing 5 days after close contact or as soon as you begin feeling symptoms. We think it’s better to wait a bit longer after symptoms.)
***Antigen tests work really well thereafter***
The second “real world” study compared nasal antigen tests with nasal PCR tests among 731 people in San Francisco from January 3-4, 2022. The scientists evaluated how well the BinaxNOW rapid antigen tests performed compared to PCR at a community-based testing site. What did they find?
-Overall, 296 of 731 (40.5%) tested positive on the PCR.
—-Among people with a positive PCR with no symptoms (59 people), antigen tests detected 43 positive. This equated to a sensitivity of 89.8% .
—-Among people with a positive PCR who were symptomatic, the sensitivity of antigen tests was 97.6%.
-As expected, the higher the viral load, the more accurate the antigen test.
-The tests were just as accurate among those under 13 years of age compared to those older than 13.
-The tests performed similarly regardless of vaccination status.
-The likelihood of a false positive was very small (432 of 435 PCR negatives were correctly identified as negative by rapid tests).
This preprint study was updated a few days ago. They added data from a pilot study of cheek swabs among 75 people, both by PCR and by rapid antigen test. This is what they found:
-Cheek swabs performed far worse than nasal swabs.
-Among 46 PCR positives, 22 were positive by antigen in the nose and only 2 were positive from the cheek. These results are disappointing, yet important to know.
In all, this study reinforces the notion that rapid tests are failing in the first few days not because of technical issues, but because Omicron is changing disease biology. It seems there is now a lag between symptoms, contagiousness and viral explosion in the nose. When the virus does take hold in the nose, rapid tests can usually find it, even without symptoms.
***You’re infectious for longer than 5 days***
The third study evaluated how Omicron infection was (or was not) different from Delta infection among National Basketball Association players—a highly vaccinated population that is tested daily. Specifically, scientists evaluated 97 tests confirmed from the Omicron variant and 107 from the Delta variant and compared how the tests varied on a myriad of factors (viral load, length of infection, etc.). Samples were all collected using dual swabs (nose and throat) and evaluated with PCR. What did they find?
-Omicron infection lasted, on average, 10 days. This is comparable to Delta infections which lasted, on average, 11 days.
-Many people cleared the virus faster and others clear the virus much slower.
-Roughly 50% of people still had a high viral levels at Day 5 (meaning they were likely infectious).
Together the results suggest a broad range of an infectious period, which is all the more reason to use a rapid antigen test-to-exit strategy in the United States.
***The U.K. agrees***
A separate modeling study in the U.K. estimated the impact of leveraging antigen tests to end isolation (something the CDC is not recommending). Specifically, the scientists were interested in how many people would be infectious given different policy recommendations. What did they find?
-During a 5-day isolation period (and not using an antigen test), there is a 1 in 3 (31%) chance you’re still infectious.
-During a 7-day isolation period (and not using an antigen test), there is a 1 in 6 chance you’re still infectious.
-If you use an antigen test on Day 7 of isolation and it’s negative, there is less than a 1 in 10 chance you’re still infectious. This is the same odds as if you isolated for 10 days without testing.
In England, the isolation policy was updated again this week: “It is now possible to end self-isolation after 5 full days if you have 2 negative LFD tests taken on consecutive days. The first LFD test should not be taken before the fifth day after your symptoms started (or the day your test was taken if you did not have symptoms).”
***Viral load isn’t the same thing as infectious load, though***
All the previous studies (except the U.K. report) analyzed “viral load” or the number of virus particles because it’s the easiest to measure for a quick turnaround study. However, and importantly, the number of viral particles does not equal the number of infectious particles. And the latter is what we are truly interested to answer: Are we infectious?
The final “real world” study was conducted in Switzerland among 384 symptomatic individuals at a community testing center, who were tested during the first five days of symptoms. The goal was to examine the relationship between viral load (measured by PCR) and contagiousness (measured by lab experiments). What did they find?
-The precise viral level by PCR was not a great predictor of infectiousness—it was a modest 31% correlation. This is okay, but certainly not fantastic.
-The number of infectious particles was lower among vaccinated compared to unvaccinated people.
-Omicron was not substantially different from Delta, either in terms of viral load or contagiousness. In other words, we need to look elsewhere to understand Omicron’s mysteriously high contagiousness.
This study did not include rapid antigen tests, but given that we are seeing considerable infectiousness at viral levels lower than what rapid tests pick up, it’s best to assume that a positive rapid test means you are contagious, no matter what testing day you’re on.
***Bottom line:***
Use antigen tests. Use antigen tests. Use antigen tests. Do so wisely.
-Be aware of false negatives in the early stages of infection, and know that it can take several days after symptoms for the virus to take hold in your nose. Once you reach the tipping point, rapid tests are a reliable way to detect and monitor your infection.
-Trust your positive test during the Omicron wave.
-If at all possible, do not leave isolation without testing (I don’t care what the CDC says). If you can’t access tests, assume you are contagious for 10 days, and act accordingly.
Love, YLE and Dr. Chana Davis

Хм, у меня не такой вывод из статьи. Ну бог с ней. Работает норм.
А какой?

Если честно, она меня притомила  :grin:
Чуваку явно за количество знаков платят. Я ее раза три пыталась прочитать, полностью но нет.
Основной вывод (в моем понимании), что антиген-тесты достаточно точны и могут использоваться для самостоятельного тестирования. Способны показать довольно точный результат через пару дней от начала симптомов.

Offline ~Багира~

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39695 : Січень 20, 2022, 21:52:10 »
Антиген, сама делаю.
Ага. То есть коридор времени не обязательно пугающе узок.
Это о чем?
Очень полезный пост американской эпидемиолога, особенно по поводу быстрых антиген-тестов, вкартце - такие тесты лучше использовать через 48 часов от начала симптомов или через 5 дней после контакта, и если получили отрицательный результат, то повторить еще через 24 часа.
Cпойлер
Your Local Epidemiologist
5 год  ·
Antigen Tests: Real world data
Today, after 2 long years, antigen tests are finally available to Americans free of charge. (Actually, yesterday the system secretly went live. More than 900,000 got word and flooded the site in a few hours). Each household can order up to 4 tests on covidtests.gov. Or you can go on the USPS website and fill out a surprisingly easy government form (oxymoron, I know). You will not be charged for shipping, and they don’t even ask for a credit card number. The tests should show up in your mailbox 7-12 days later. (There are a number of health equity issues with all of this, but that’s for another post).
And we really need to better leverage antigen tests in our pandemic toolkit. They are one of the most underutilized tools and can help us “learn to live” with SARS-CoV-2 by breaking transmission chains across the nation.
In my last antigen test post, I presented evidence that antigen tests could physically detect Omicron (thanks to the N-protein), and lab studies could detect Omicron at the same viral levels as Delta. But lab studies are highly controlled environments and certainly not reflective of the “real world.” We desperately needed evidence in the community. Now we have five studies and each has a unique contribution to the puzzle we’re trying to put together: How well do antigen tests work?
Here is what they say.
***Be careful with negatives in the beginning of infection***
The first study followed 30 people in high-risk jobs from December 1 to December 31, 2021, during Omicron outbreaks at five workplaces in New York, NY, Los Angeles, CA, and San Francisco, CA. Everyone was fully vaccinated (boosted by choice) and was being tested daily. The scientists compared how well nasal antigen tests worked against saliva PCR tests. They found a few interesting patterns:
-The average time from first positive PCR to first antigen positive was 3 days
-Peak viral load was 1-2 days earlier in saliva than the nose
-All individuals developed symptoms within two days of the first positive saliva PCR test
-It’s possible to be contagious yet have a negative rapid test. Four of the 30 people in this study spread COVID19 between negative rapid tests.
It’s important to note that this study primarily compared nasal antigen tests to saliva PCR tests. So, are these findings because antigen tests aren’t as great in the beginning of infection OR because of the location which was swabbed? It seems like the location of the swab is a big part of the answer. Five people in this study also had a nasal PCR. The saliva PCRs consistently had stronger signals (lower Ct values) than the nasal PCRs in the first few days of infection.
This study tells us that we need to be super careful when using rapid tests in the first few days of exposure or infection. To get the most from your rapid test, wait at least 48 hours after symptoms and 5 days after exposure before taking an antigen test. If you’re negative, test again 24 hours thereafter. You can certainly test sooner, but any negative results will be unreliable. A positive antigen test result, on the other hand, is very reliable right now, especially after exposure or with symptoms.
(For the record, the CDC rapid testing website FAQ section advises testing 5 days after close contact or as soon as you begin feeling symptoms. We think it’s better to wait a bit longer after symptoms.)
***Antigen tests work really well thereafter***
The second “real world” study compared nasal antigen tests with nasal PCR tests among 731 people in San Francisco from January 3-4, 2022. The scientists evaluated how well the BinaxNOW rapid antigen tests performed compared to PCR at a community-based testing site. What did they find?
-Overall, 296 of 731 (40.5%) tested positive on the PCR.
—-Among people with a positive PCR with no symptoms (59 people), antigen tests detected 43 positive. This equated to a sensitivity of 89.8% .
—-Among people with a positive PCR who were symptomatic, the sensitivity of antigen tests was 97.6%.
-As expected, the higher the viral load, the more accurate the antigen test.
-The tests were just as accurate among those under 13 years of age compared to those older than 13.
-The tests performed similarly regardless of vaccination status.
-The likelihood of a false positive was very small (432 of 435 PCR negatives were correctly identified as negative by rapid tests).
This preprint study was updated a few days ago. They added data from a pilot study of cheek swabs among 75 people, both by PCR and by rapid antigen test. This is what they found:
-Cheek swabs performed far worse than nasal swabs.
-Among 46 PCR positives, 22 were positive by antigen in the nose and only 2 were positive from the cheek. These results are disappointing, yet important to know.
In all, this study reinforces the notion that rapid tests are failing in the first few days not because of technical issues, but because Omicron is changing disease biology. It seems there is now a lag between symptoms, contagiousness and viral explosion in the nose. When the virus does take hold in the nose, rapid tests can usually find it, even without symptoms.
***You’re infectious for longer than 5 days***
The third study evaluated how Omicron infection was (or was not) different from Delta infection among National Basketball Association players—a highly vaccinated population that is tested daily. Specifically, scientists evaluated 97 tests confirmed from the Omicron variant and 107 from the Delta variant and compared how the tests varied on a myriad of factors (viral load, length of infection, etc.). Samples were all collected using dual swabs (nose and throat) and evaluated with PCR. What did they find?
-Omicron infection lasted, on average, 10 days. This is comparable to Delta infections which lasted, on average, 11 days.
-Many people cleared the virus faster and others clear the virus much slower.
-Roughly 50% of people still had a high viral levels at Day 5 (meaning they were likely infectious).
Together the results suggest a broad range of an infectious period, which is all the more reason to use a rapid antigen test-to-exit strategy in the United States.
***The U.K. agrees***
A separate modeling study in the U.K. estimated the impact of leveraging antigen tests to end isolation (something the CDC is not recommending). Specifically, the scientists were interested in how many people would be infectious given different policy recommendations. What did they find?
-During a 5-day isolation period (and not using an antigen test), there is a 1 in 3 (31%) chance you’re still infectious.
-During a 7-day isolation period (and not using an antigen test), there is a 1 in 6 chance you’re still infectious.
-If you use an antigen test on Day 7 of isolation and it’s negative, there is less than a 1 in 10 chance you’re still infectious. This is the same odds as if you isolated for 10 days without testing.
In England, the isolation policy was updated again this week: “It is now possible to end self-isolation after 5 full days if you have 2 negative LFD tests taken on consecutive days. The first LFD test should not be taken before the fifth day after your symptoms started (or the day your test was taken if you did not have symptoms).”
***Viral load isn’t the same thing as infectious load, though***
All the previous studies (except the U.K. report) analyzed “viral load” or the number of virus particles because it’s the easiest to measure for a quick turnaround study. However, and importantly, the number of viral particles does not equal the number of infectious particles. And the latter is what we are truly interested to answer: Are we infectious?
The final “real world” study was conducted in Switzerland among 384 symptomatic individuals at a community testing center, who were tested during the first five days of symptoms. The goal was to examine the relationship between viral load (measured by PCR) and contagiousness (measured by lab experiments). What did they find?
-The precise viral level by PCR was not a great predictor of infectiousness—it was a modest 31% correlation. This is okay, but certainly not fantastic.
-The number of infectious particles was lower among vaccinated compared to unvaccinated people.
-Omicron was not substantially different from Delta, either in terms of viral load or contagiousness. In other words, we need to look elsewhere to understand Omicron’s mysteriously high contagiousness.
This study did not include rapid antigen tests, but given that we are seeing considerable infectiousness at viral levels lower than what rapid tests pick up, it’s best to assume that a positive rapid test means you are contagious, no matter what testing day you’re on.
***Bottom line:***
Use antigen tests. Use antigen tests. Use antigen tests. Do so wisely.
-Be aware of false negatives in the early stages of infection, and know that it can take several days after symptoms for the virus to take hold in your nose. Once you reach the tipping point, rapid tests are a reliable way to detect and monitor your infection.
-Trust your positive test during the Omicron wave.
-If at all possible, do not leave isolation without testing (I don’t care what the CDC says). If you can’t access tests, assume you are contagious for 10 days, and act accordingly.
Love, YLE and Dr. Chana Davis

Хм, у меня не такой вывод из статьи. Ну бог с ней. Работает норм.
А какой?

Если честно, она меня притомила  :grin:
Чуваку явно за количество знаков платят. Я ее раза три пыталась прочитать, полностью но нет.
Основной вывод (в моем понимании), что антиген-тесты достаточно точны и могут использоваться для самостоятельного тестирования. Способны показать довольно точный результат через пару дней от начала симптомов.

Я сейчас еще раз пробежалась. Это я не так поняла , да. Почему-то решила, что он не долго ловит вирус. А тут скорее о неточностях как раз на ранних этапах. Так как мы все и так контактные, то через 5 дней тесты не наделаешься. Выходит, надо делать на третий день симптомов, емли положительный, то верить, если отрицательный, повторить обязательно на четвёртый день. При положительном считать себя заразным десять дней, а для посещения мам и пап еще недельку накинуть. Это если не повторять тест через 10 дней.
А про точность в носу или слюне они мечутся, то там точнее, то там.

Offline Крижинка

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39696 : Січень 21, 2022, 09:35:51 »
Пульсоксиметра нету - это очень плохо? тупо зайти в аптеку и купить тот что дешевле = Ок?
Совершенно ок, любой подойдет.
Я еще аспирин 81 мг пила и АЦЦ (да, это недоказано, но оч популярно в наших краях помимо цинка и витаминов).

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39697 : Січень 21, 2022, 10:03:17 »
11 числа ездили с мужем в Киев. На следующий день муж снова поехал в Киев к матери. Вернулся 15 числа с жалобой на плохое самочувствие. Ничего особенного: небольшой кашель, температура 37,1, озноб + депрессняк. На следующий день температура нормализовалась. Редкий кашель, ощущение холода и депрессивное настроение задержались. Сатурация в норме. Муж считает, что его просто просквозило на сильном ветру.
Но что странно, в эти же дни у меня наблюдалась "заложенность" в груди и один день сухого кашля, который к вечеру внезапно прошел. Повышения температуры не было.
На следующий день был продолжительный чих, но это тоже не показатель - с обилием котиков чих у меня не редкость.
Словом, хз, что это было. Бустер решили отложить до понедельника.
То, что гусеница называет концом света, Мастер назовет бабочкой (с)

Offline Крижинка

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39698 : Січень 21, 2022, 10:06:20 »
4. Чем можно сбивать температуру и как часто принимать в каких дозах? я пока парацетамол принял - с 38.2 снизилось до 38.0 к поднимется - пить парацетамол опять? или что-то еще? и по вредности тоже?
Ибупрофен 400 мг. Он вроде как для почек вреден, но температуру надежнее сбивает.
Как редкий везунчик, который схватил и дельту, и омикрон, скажу, что у омикрона симптомы ярче, но в глубину он таки не уходит, много от него неприятностей, но с дыханием все ок.
Ну и да, смотрю на цифры в Украине - похоже, таки омикронная волна, которая  у нас  спадает уже. По ощущениям переболело большинство знакомых. При этом ни одного тяжелого случая,  ттт.

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39699 : Січень 21, 2022, 10:06:54 »
вотжешблинство. похоже и меня догнало.
вчера к вечеру - не оч. списывал на свою сн, у сердца после инфаркта слабая "фракция выброса" - может тупо не вытягивать на все сто снабжение организма. померял температуру - не-а, 37.3.
ночь толком не спал, утром чувствую чот хуже. померял - 38.2. давление 129/90. чсс 90+ (тут я почти усрался, это просто лежа без нагрузки вообше).
конечно моожет быть это просто орви. хотелось бы думать. но тоже херово.

вопросы (тут обсуждалось но извините не нарою наверное)

1. Когда (см.выше симптомы) и какие анализы сдавать? (рядом есть dila и синево)

2. Пульсоксиметра нету - это очень плохо? тупо зайти в аптеку и купить тот что дешевле = Ок?
(или м.б. ну вдруг кто-то на оболони недалеко от м.минская сможет одолжить? пальцем в небо "ну а вдруг")

3. Про питье, витамин D, по возможерсти C, цинк - я в курсе (так, на всякий случай), м.б. что-то еще, из народной (типа черного тмина. куркумина)?
По анализам -- любой на ковид. Можно купить в аптеке тест на антиген и самому сделать завтра.
Температуру выше 38 сбивать. На всех жаропонижающих указана дозировка, этим и руководствоваться, меньше можно, больше не надо. Я пила нимесил 1-2 раза в сутки, но у меня болели мышцы и суставы, поэтому такой был выбор. Температуру тоже сбивал нормально.
Я обошлась без пульсоксиметра, но у меня с кашля не было, с дыханием все было нормально.
Выздоравливай.

Offline Ash

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39700 : Січень 21, 2022, 10:38:04 »
вчера к вечеру - не оч. списывал на свою сн, у сердца после инфаркта слабая "фракция выброса" - может тупо не вытягивать на все сто снабжение организма. померял температуру - не-а, 37.3.
ночь толком не спал, утром чувствую чот хуже. померял - 38.2. давление 129/90. чсс 90+ (тут я почти усрался, это просто лежа без нагрузки вообше).
конечно моожет быть это просто орви. хотелось бы думать. но тоже херово.

вопросы (тут обсуждалось но извините не нарою наверное)

1. Когда (см.выше симптомы) и какие анализы сдавать? (рядом есть dila и синево)

2. Пульсоксиметра нету - это очень плохо? тупо зайти в аптеку и купить тот что дешевле = Ок?
(или м.б. ну вдруг кто-то на оболони недалеко от м.минская сможет одолжить? пальцем в небо "ну а вдруг")

3. Про питье, витамин D, по возможерсти C, цинк - я в курсе (так, на всякий случай), м.б. что-то еще, из народной (типа черного тмина. куркумина)?
1. С 3 дня симптомов вполне работает экспресс-тест( сужу по старшей сестре). Если вдруг понадобится ПЦР, то я бы самую малость подождала. Если не будет острой необходимости в ПЦР, конечно.
2. Плохо, учитывая, что ты в группе риска. Я видела пульсоксиметр в аптеках, но по моим ощущениям , он не в каждой первой, а могут быть варианты. Поэтому  предварительно я бы пробила по поисковику , есть ли он в ближайших к тебе аптеках, перед тем, как туда идти. Дай бог, чтобы он тебе не понадобился, но иметь дома пульсоксиметр сейчас должно быть нормой, как и иметь термометр.
3. Пряности могут вызывать тахикардию( у меня  с этим проблемы и есть опыт использования корицы в лечебных целях), поэтому я с народными средствами не экспериментирую.
 Добавлю от себя. Учитывая симптомы по части сердечно-сосудистой и твой анамнез, исключительно разумно было бы проконсультироваться с кардиологом, даже удаленно. Наилучший вариант с тем, кто тебя ведет , но за неимением  подойдет любой вдумчивый  кардиолог, который согласиться консультировать удаленно.
 Скорейшего выздоровления без осложнений!
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Offline Shana

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39701 : Січень 21, 2022, 10:56:41 »
Поэтому  предварительно я бы пробила по поисковику , есть ли он в ближайших к тебе аптеках, перед тем, как туда идти.
В Киеве несметное количество. Цены от 168 до 919 грн.
https://tabletki.ua/category/1116/
То, что гусеница называет концом света, Мастер назовет бабочкой (с)

Offline May Day

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39702 : Січень 21, 2022, 11:03:19 »
Можно купить в аптеке тест на антиген и самому сделать завтра.

Подскажи, пожалуйста, какой именно тест ты покупала? В аптеках выбор из нескольких, трудно выбрать.
(Мне так, на всякий случай).
The best is yet to come.

Offline Охтирка

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39703 : Січень 21, 2022, 11:53:11 »
Можно купить в аптеке тест на антиген и самому сделать завтра.

Подскажи, пожалуйста, какой именно тест ты покупала? В аптеках выбор из нескольких, трудно выбрать.
(Мне так, на всякий случай).
SD biosensor

Offline Ash

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39704 : Січень 21, 2022, 12:28:33 »
Бустернулась, Пфайзер. Можно было и Модерну, но все таки выбрала Пфайзер.
Модерна - половинка.
Бустерилась в Сити-центре на Ойстраха, людей немного, но потихоньку, с интервалами идут. В том числе и люди пенсионного возраста.
Одесса-это Украина.
At the suit of pozemka: Covid 19 (01.20)
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Offline marplik

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39705 : Січень 21, 2022, 21:41:15 »
Кольцо сжимается. У дочки две подружки, с которыми она довольно тесно и близко общается, заболели. Одна в воскресенье, другая во вторник. Тесты им теперь делают два раза в неделю, вторничный пришёл негативный, ждём сегодняшнего.

Offline wounded_zmey

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39706 : Січень 21, 2022, 22:21:44 »
по моему опыту: простудных симптомов может и не быть вообще. только ьемпература. так что за сатурацией надо следить.
а параметры свертываемости крови пляшут как безумные. тем, у кого стенты, шунты и клапана - каждый день сдавать.
по моему же опыту, Модерна - вещь!!
завтра распишу подробнее

Online vs

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39707 : Січень 21, 2022, 22:35:34 »
Кольцо сжимается. У дочки две подружки, с которыми она довольно тесно и близко общается, заболели. Одна в воскресенье, другая во вторник. Тесты им теперь делают два раза в неделю, вторничный пришёл негативный, ждём сегодняшнего.

в мене в сина декілька однокласників та вчитель, в нього поки негативний

Offline marplik

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39708 : Січень 21, 2022, 22:45:55 »
Я-то уже, в принципе, думаю, что вопрос стоит не если, а когда. Но смотрю в будущее с оптимизмом. Пока что все мои бустернутые знакомые заболевшие отделываются лёгким испугом. Многие даже продолжают работать.

Offline Ash

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39709 : Січень 22, 2022, 01:26:26 »
 Это ж простогрипп, говорили они.
Цитувати (виділене)
Опубліковано офіційну статистику смертності за 11 місяців в Україні (650 000 смертей).
Справджуються прогноз щодо загальної смертності 700 000 за рік (в останні доковідні роки не перевищувала 600 000), відповідно надлишкова смертність становитиме 100-120 тисяч за рік.
В листопаді померло майже 90 000 (зазвичай 60 000) - ріст у півтора рази в цьому місяці.
Коронавірус - друга причина смертей після серцево-судинних захворювань, обігнавши онкологію. В листопаді ковідом спричинена кожна четверта смерть.
https://index.minfin.com.ua/ua/reference/people/deaths/2021/?fbclid=IwAR2wYx87POg0MYjo3oWINpjs4ZNiQwsTqWhAm8tH61ojhb8_VI-jWd6sgHU
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Offline ~Багира~

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39712 : Січень 22, 2022, 09:47:17 »
гребаный пульсоксиметр. на жене показывает без особых выкрутасов. я сую палец - пищит с разными интервалами минут пять - и нихрена не показывает ну или напищится начинает показывать пляшущую сатураци, от 94 до 96... и потом экран просто гаснет и какие-то мелки надписи хер разберешь по-английски... пищание это постоянное ради того чтобы отловить появление цифр если повезет(!) - конкретно выматывает и тупо бесит. вот ночью решил померять - весь дом разбудил. блять.
а в тестх вообще запутался. SD biosensor нашел, ага, за шесть тыщ...
Я поэтому уже год советую купить его и заранее потестить, чтобы понять особенности своего организма, так сказать. :(

Ну я могу сказать, что так вел себя он у моих больных ковидом мамы и сестры. Маме потом понадобился кислород, сестре нет. И потом, после болезни, этот же прибор работал на них нормально.

Но это ничего не значит, как с тобой обстоят дела в здоровом состоянии не понятно, поэтому и выводы делать мы не можем.

Ну и вряд ли у тебя ногти с темным гель лаком же?
Варианты попробовать засунуть палец подальше или поближе тоже, наверное, предлагать не стоит, сам пробовал. Ну и разные руки-пальцы.

Поправляйся скорее!

Offline Крижинка

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39713 : Січень 22, 2022, 10:10:19 »
Ммм.. а к врачу не вариант?
С одной стороны у моего папы в день положительного теста тоже неизвестно откуда кислород был 91-92, потом сам поднялся к 97 и больше не падал. С другой стороны все же 93 маловато будет.

Offline Roman_V_M

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39714 : Січень 22, 2022, 11:34:09 »
а параметры свертываемости крови пляшут как безумные. тем, у кого стенты, шунты и клапана - каждый день сдавать.

Мне после Ковида в апреле пришлось дозу Варфарина заново подбирать, т. к. МНО при старой дозе скакнул до 3,5 (для незнающих: чем выше МНО, тем ниже свертываемость крови, норма - 1,0). Заметил по тому, что десна стали постоянно кровоточить и побежал сдавать анализ. Теперь после Ковида принимаю меньшую дозу для того же целевого показателя МНО (2,0-3,0).

К сожалению, сдавать каждый день - не вариант, потому что вены очень хреновые. А отдавать 1000 у.е. за Роше Коагучек жаба давит.

Offline Охтирка

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39715 : Січень 22, 2022, 11:35:27 »
ногти норм без лака зачем жену шокировать
сегодня с утра у сонного организма напикало SpO2=93 (t=37.9 чсс=85)
похоже что хренасдва я выздоравливаю. ну или это моя нормальная сатурация (хотя интернеты говорят что ніт)

пром-юэй
ты что-то другое нашёл
да, что-то другое. вбил неуточненное название отсюда - и растерялся.
СПАСИБО, жена поехала покупать.
Спокойно. У меня температура держалась 4 дня, трижды поднималась выше 38. Такого раньше не было никогда.
Тест сегодня опять позитивный.  :grin: Это при том, что со среды симптомов практически нет. Но я на него забиваю и с понедельника иду на работу. Перукарню сегодня отменила.

Offline ~Багира~

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39716 : Січень 22, 2022, 13:12:53 »
У меня племянница в Польше расклеилась в понедельник - горло и по мелочи - сопли, такое, без температуры. Тест не делала. И тут на нее вышли пограничники (она стажируется в аэропорту). Попался какой-то англичанин с ковидом, камеры наблюдения показали, что она 7-го с ним контактировала. С дистанцией и прочими правилами. Погнали ее на тест. Ковид. Она думала, к слову, что уже все проходит, а сейчас ухудшилось - кашель сухой плохой, горло очень сильно, 37.2. В общаге ее отселили куда-то отдельно.

Online Mike123

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39717 : Січень 22, 2022, 13:28:54 »
Пробили 20 тысяч. Сколько насобираем в следующую неделю? :) Но показатели госпитализации и смертности пока радуют. 22473/2608/136

Offline Охтирка

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39718 : Січень 22, 2022, 14:44:31 »
еще раз сунул палец в оксиметр, снова пять минут безрезультатных писков послушал - выкинул его нахер. в мусорку. жене правда написал записку на кухонный стол положил - мол если денех уплоченных за оксиметр жалко - збьери его из мусорки, я это трололо бездушное вычеркнул из своей жизни как минимум до твоих уговоров...

кстати с какой температуры сбивать? а то тут у нас чота мнения разошлись - особенно после того, как оказалось, что парацетамол хорошо так придавливает температуру и надолго, через полтора часа - 36.8-37.1 и потом плавный подъем около 6(+) часов до 38.2. жена говорит как только 38.0 или даже 37.9 - я больше склонен до 38.3(+) потерпеть.

ЗЫ: кашля как небыло так и нет, очень иногда такое ощущение на подкашливании обыкновенном (не болезненном) что горло немного дерет.
Интернет пише 38-38,5, в зависимости от состояния. Я начинала сбивать, когда переваливало за 38, больше не ждала. Становилось плоховато, давило сердце.

Offline pozemka

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Re: Коронавіруси, грип
« Reply #39719 : Січень 22, 2022, 16:52:00 »
бустернутые
:grin:
Господа, кто отбустерился, ставьте в статус или в подпись "бустернутый/ая" .  :sarcastic:

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